tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5350909421320911401.post6523426199825582490..comments2022-10-19T07:38:51.527+13:00Comments on The Dice Odyssey: Fantasy and 40k: The Movement PhaseRunicmadhamsterhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16998940858801320118noreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5350909421320911401.post-19773723814895191012013-08-10T13:32:14.771+12:002013-08-10T13:32:14.771+12:00The debate was resolved off the forum :P The debate was resolved off the forum :P Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10127782785335814252noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5350909421320911401.post-87290020061714747012013-08-10T11:44:29.998+12:002013-08-10T11:44:29.998+12:00'the fluff is so crazy and can be made to say ...'the fluff is so crazy and can be made to say whatever the person who is writing they fluff wants it to say.' <br /><br />Exactly what Games workshop does... Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10127782785335814252noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5350909421320911401.post-22000608842626508962013-08-10T11:37:35.549+12:002013-08-10T11:37:35.549+12:00That is exactly what Warhammer is, a set of rules ...That is exactly what Warhammer is, a set of rules written to suit the fluff. no rule doesnt fit the fluff, its all entirely fluff base. Why do they get battle focus? Because of the fluff, why do Spacemarines have Bolters? Because of the fluff, why can i play as dark Eldar? Because of the fluff. <br /><br />So your saying the game is a failure and weak because it was made by using fluff then i think you are very wrong lol. That is what it seems like you are trying to say....Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10127782785335814252noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5350909421320911401.post-9980542710536780282013-08-09T22:45:47.940+12:002013-08-09T22:45:47.940+12:00No you are misunderstanding me, what i am saying i...No you are misunderstanding me, what i am saying is that trying to justify s rule like say battle focus by using fluff fails because the fluff is so crazy and can be made to say whatever the person who is writing they fluff wants it to say.Runicmadhamsterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16998940858801320118noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5350909421320911401.post-69909318683237146012013-08-09T21:26:14.172+12:002013-08-09T21:26:14.172+12:00so the fluff rules arent ridiculous at all. so the fluff rules arent ridiculous at all. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10127782785335814252noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5350909421320911401.post-36123921173214972432013-08-09T21:11:13.257+12:002013-08-09T21:11:13.257+12:00no they wear helmets.... and like i said they stil...no they wear helmets.... and like i said they still need to keep the balance. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10127782785335814252noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5350909421320911401.post-56967176583293430122013-08-09T21:02:13.762+12:002013-08-09T21:02:13.762+12:00What i am saying is you cant justify rules using f...What i am saying is you cant justify rules using fluff because the fluff is crazy. Space marines should be able to spit acid as a shooting attack according to fluff.Runicmadhamsterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16998940858801320118noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5350909421320911401.post-89334739743314924042013-08-09T20:51:42.948+12:002013-08-09T20:51:42.948+12:00talking about official rules there is nothing wron...talking about official rules there is nothing wrong with fluff based rules at all Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10127782785335814252noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5350909421320911401.post-40966420188592315072013-08-09T20:49:10.872+12:002013-08-09T20:49:10.872+12:00no because like i said we are talking official rul...no because like i said we are talking official rules, not your made up rules....Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10127782785335814252noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5350909421320911401.post-2728396379188814492013-08-09T20:36:54.651+12:002013-08-09T20:36:54.651+12:00There is a black library author, called C.S Gotto,...There is a black library author, called C.S Gotto, who has Khornate Sorcerers, Back Flipping terminators, and multi-lasers attached to carnifixes. Now because GW declared everything published by the Black Library to be cannon but not necessarily true i can, using the argument from fluff, have back flipping terminators, Khornate sorcerers and multi-laser carnifixes because all that is cannon.<br /><br />Like i said the argument from fluff falls apart because the fluff is pants on head crazy Runicmadhamsterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16998940858801320118noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5350909421320911401.post-32134694124615377142013-08-09T20:09:46.255+12:002013-08-09T20:09:46.255+12:00excuse my spelling errors :P didn't realise i ...excuse my spelling errors :P didn't realise i cannot edit my posts so bear with meAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10127782785335814252noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5350909421320911401.post-47868505198073071172013-08-09T20:01:38.471+12:002013-08-09T20:01:38.471+12:00nut the codex isnt just fluff, you miss the bit ab...nut the codex isnt just fluff, you miss the bit about balance. so although its fluffy its balanced. Another way to look at it is not fluff but theme. would you play as your race if it was exactly the same as all the others? no. there is nothing wrong with fluff based rules and it dosnt make the game unfair. I didnt hear you say how unfair it was how your wolves could act normally after retreating for example :P.<br /><br />Its still balanced and newer codices doesnt mean better, each codex works fine. fluff ties into all of them from individual rules to weaponry and numbers however armies are never bad. <br /><br />a whole codex and army book is solely based on fluff so all the rules are justified because of fluff. also black library writers very, very frequently change the fluff in their books. <br /><br />also your example is wrong simply because we arent talking custom rules we are talking games workshop rules who as i said before make rules fluffy and balanced. <br /><br />i really dont see how its weak to say it suits the fluff. Fluff restricts races and they never let fluff ruin the balance of a game. <br />Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10127782785335814252noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5350909421320911401.post-29297019179237687772013-08-09T18:40:03.317+12:002013-08-09T18:40:03.317+12:00The argument from fluff (its in the eldar lore the...The argument from fluff (its in the eldar lore therefore the rule is justified) is weak. If i were to become a black library author (lets just imagine) i could write a story were space marine give birth to space marines and that would be considered cannon by GW. Then i could write a space marine rule that doubles their squads size every 3 turns and because its in they fluff that makes it justified.<br /><br />That is why the argument from fluff is so weak because the fluff is pants on head crazy Runicmadhamsterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16998940858801320118noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5350909421320911401.post-29200484751814099162013-08-09T18:25:00.828+12:002013-08-09T18:25:00.828+12:00"With Charge moves being moved to the assault..."With Charge moves being moved to the assault phase, and having the option to “Run” models in the shooting phase there is movement going on in every game turn, and given that newer armies take advantage of this it can leave the older armies at a severe disadvantage."<br /><br />the latter of that point i would argue as incorrect. eldar have an advantage not because they are new, but because of their fluff. Eldar have always had a speed advantage but didnt retain it with rules changes over time but have rightfully been out back. i'd argue that no matter the edition its not an advantage or disadvantage at all. Just a more easily understood codex tends be a newer one because they are written for current rules. Also to point out that 40k is a war of mobility so it would be ridiculous for small units of men to have to reduce movement to turn or pivot. <br /><br />although 40k is streamlined a simple error can put you out of cover and leave a squad in pieces. cover being a vital point missed in the argument because 40k is based on cover entirely. no cover means you will usually die. so planning where your movement based on the enemy positions is vital along with predicting enemy movements at the same time. <br /><br />Although at the club its generally not considered but structures play a huge part in 40k movement, occupying them etc etc. so wither terrain is something you will consider later or now but this is an aspect which also determines survivability in the following phases.<br /><br />Also the way cover can be used throughout each phase is a big thing for example jet units moving out of cover shooting than jumping back into cover. Flyers is another element unexplored in the movement analysis along with vehicles and their role on how the 40k turn is different. <br /><br />overall i think terrain is what makes 40k movement so much different to that of fantasy simply because its about keeping yourself safe whilst keeping their models at their least safest (worded badly :P) Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10127782785335814252noreply@blogger.com