Wednesday, 3 September 2014

Whats so Bad About Herohammer?

At the start of this week I hadn’t fully made up my mind on the End Times rules. I loved the lore update and liked the models but I was on the fence over the rules having said previously that I would ignore them, that wasn’t due to me disliking them that was due to me not planning on buying them.

I like to think I am a logical and rational person who can be swayed by decent arguments and logical thought and this is just what has happened with the End Times: Nagash rules. After listening to a few of my regular podcasts (most of whom talked about the book) I not only now plan on buying the End Times: Nasgash book but look forward to playing some End Times games, especially with the scenario set underground. I don’t plan on using the Lore of Undeath, as this would mean buying a whole new army, but things like the increased 50% lord and hero allocations are something I will be using.

And now we come to the heart of this post. Ever since the 50% lord and hero allocations were seen people have been saying that this is a 9th ed hint (which I still don’t buy. But am happy to be proved wrong) and that this heralds the return of Herohammer (Dun,dun,dun) which is apparently big and scary and we should stop playing WHFB because of it. But I don’t see the issue here, in other words what is wrong with having more lords and heroes on the field? Heroes can still only take 50 points of magic items and lords can only take 100 points, so its not like they got harder to kill, they are still as vulnerable to cannon balls, magic, snipers and miscasts as they were before. Yeah you may see more of them but all that means is changing your tactics and strategies to counter them. So what if you face a 2400 point Dark Elf army with 2 lords on Black Dragons, they can’t take the same magic items and that’s just less points that that player gets to spend on things like Warlocks and Bolt Throwers. And it’s not like 2 Black Dragon rider lords are un-killable, bog them down in infantry, flank and rear charge them and break them in combat, or just dance around them with Skirmish units or fast cav and pepper them to death, or just shoot them in the face with a cannon ball, that still works. I actually like the idea of being able to field a Dragon riding Wood Elf Glade Lord and a Level 4 Lifeweaver, that would be kinda cool.

To recap I don’t see the issue with the possible return of Herohammer, its not like the lords and heroes got harder to kill, there (may)be more of them which means less of the other  tough units. Remember that WHFB is actually a fairly balanced game and an army is made up of lords, heroes, core, special and are, lords and heroes and juts a small part of that make up and no one category is stronger than the rest of the categories combined.

Another thing pointed out by the guys over at the Jaded Gamer Cast was that all 4 of the new characters presented in the End Times: Nagash Book had one stat line despite having monstrous mounts, thus giving all they characters better stat lines and meaning less book keeping, it also means that if a one of them gets hit by a cannon ball there is no random wound allocation, it all hits the one stat line. If this is a feature in 9th ed WHFB then that would be a pretty damn good thing.

All in all I am looking forward to the next 3 parts of the End Times series and am hopeful that 9th edition will make WHFB an even better game than it currently is. Until next time.


  1. And back when the 8th edition rumours were flying around there was much wailing and Nagashing of teeth because the Character allowance was split and restricted to 25%. All those favourite Lord choices now couldn't be fielded it was the End of Times for many players.
    In addition isn't Nagash 1000 points or something? There wouldn't be many sales if you could only field him 4000 point battles.

    1. Nagash is 1k points, so you are right that it would make sense to increase the lord allowance so that he can be fielded in medium size games

  2. So these rules didnt exist in 4th edition (which i still loved):

    Stepping Up
    Supporting Attacks
    Horde formation
    The Number 6 Spells
    Blood and Glory and Watchtower
    Laser-guided cannon shots
    The current Toughness chart
    Striking in Initiative order even against charges, plus ASF
    Having to roll to March in order to Fly 20 inches
    Random Effing Charge Distance

    The current disruption rules where a monster, or a hero on one or on a horse, cannot negate ranks
    One-shot breathweapons
    Fear just modifies WS, not autobreaking anymore
    BSBs allow re-rolls on fear and terror as well as Break
    Breath weapons that average 7 hits (2D6) in combat instead of 20 (template)
    Combat reforms

  3. I don't think people really need to stress about 'hero hammer'... If anything it allows people to get into warhammer cheaper

  4. I love the combined profile on the Monster mounted characters. If nothing else I would love that to be the new approach moving forward.

    1. It does make things far easier for both the controlling player and the player trying to kill the monster

    2. So we'll say this :).

      Normal Blender Vamp on a zombie dragon turns into this (imagine they take highest stat and combine attacks and wounds):

      WS7 BS5 S8 T6 W9 I7 A10 LD10
      All that with say a 4+ ward, beguile, OTS, Ogre Blade, thunderstomp, Fly, -1 to hit, ASF,....redfury...can you imagine redfury on would handedly wreck hobbies I think....

      Although I love the thought of it ;)

    3. Whilst that is a legitimately terrifying model to face the right tactics can beat it. Hit it with Arcane Unforging (to knock a few wounds off and remove the 4+ ward save), then proceed to dance around it with scouts/waywatchers while laughing because there isn't a whole lot Mister Dragon Vampire can do about it, if he looks like he is gonna charge feed him chaff or hit him with Wild Riders.

    4. How do you chaff up a flying vamp lord? Also that build would demolish anything you threw at it. Wildriders would disappear into a nice tree hugging mist of blood. Another horrible one is a Chaos Lord on a Dragon, with the whole model having a 3++ ward save re rolling ones. Yeah. Nothing is killing that if played half decently. Sorry, but combined profile is just asking for trouble. Massive DISLIKE.

  5. it also means that you are going to be heavily outnumbered if you spend all your points in heroes. early on people will try it, then lean back to balanced lists

    1. The dwarf gun-line's looking more and more attractive